The following is the transcript of an interview with Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI assistant director for counterintelligence, and CBS News Justice correspondent Scott MacFarlane on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Feb. 2, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The FBI is without a permanent director at this point, although Mr. Trump’s nominee, Kash Patel could get a vote as early as this week. We turn now to Frank Figliuzzi. He is a former FBI Assistant Director for counterintelligence who joins us from Houston. Also here Is CBS News Justice Correspondent Scott McFarlane, and you cover justice and FBI, a lot happening in both of the departments. And I want to bottom line first with Frank, if I could, digging into your experience here. If you can help us understand the reporting from our Andy Trier and Pat Milton that the executive assistant directors, those in national security, cyber-criminal divisions are being forced to resign, retire or face termination. What does it mean to have those positions forced out?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI: Yeah, when you combine that essential layer of leadership, executive assistant directors control multiple operational divisions, so at least a half a dozen of those reportedly are gone, and then you get down to the level of at least two or three special agents in charge in the field, including Miami, Washington Field Office, you are starting to lose too much experience. And if this plays out next week, as reportedly it might, with regard to dismissing hundreds or thousands of special agents in the field who have touched January 6 cases or Trump related cases. This makes America less safe. This is not reduction. This is not efficiency. It makes America less safe when you lose that much expertise this quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay, just to follow up there, Scott McFarlane. What Frank was referring to is the list that was requested. CBS’s Rob Laguerre actually obtained the memo from acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove, who was previously the personal attorney for Donald Trump. He ordered the Acting Director of the FBI to compile everyone who is an employee who was assigned to the 1,500 January 6 cases; there were also eight executives pushed out. Is this a legal and lawful order are FBI officials going to actually fire the people on these lists?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: The list is required and must be produced by 12pm eastern time Tuesday, according to our latest reporting. Whether it is produced is a different question. But the bottom line here is that such a list Margaret would include FBI employees from every FBI field office across the country. This is not just a Washington investigation. The January 6 cases went nationwide. What’s more, a lot of the names that are going to be on this list, according to my reporting, are already public domain. They’re in the court filings, are in the court docket. They’re already out there. So, it’s going to be difficult to mask anybody’s name or anybody’s identity. Whether this is legally permissible, it’s a different question, whether these firings are legally permissible? It’s a different question. We know the acting FBI director in a memo sent to his employees, he emphasized that there are robust protections. His word is robust protections for FBI agents against employment actions, feels to me like there is a galvanization of FBI employees if they want to fight this, to try to make some effort to push back. Whether they do so it’s a different question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s why I was asking. Is it actually going to be firings, or is this actually just going to be you can’t do what the President’s team is pressing to do. Brian Fitzpatrick, you know him from covering the Hill. He’s a Republican from Pennsylvania. Used to be an FBI agent. Gave CBS a statement I want to read here. He says he wants to emphasize to the administration, “line level street agents have little to no control over the office to which they’re sent, the cases to which they’re assigned and the leads which they are asked to cover. Much like the military they go with they are told and perform the investigative duties that their chain of command orders them to do.” Frank, I know you know this, but that is a Republican explaining the basic function of how law enforcement works. It sounds like there’s going to be pushback on the potential of these firings.
FRANK FIGLIUZZI: Yes, indeed, it’s been reported by multiple media outlets that the acting director pushed back very hard and very loudly against the DOJ request, and reportedly he may have been threatened with termination himself. Interestingly enough, both the acting director and acting assistant director would be on that list. They both worked Jan 6 related cases or Trump related cases. So, we’ve got a potential standoff that’s here, but yes, line agents did nothing outside of the law or attorney general guidelines. They simply worked criminal cases. In many cases, gained convictions and guilty pleas, and if they were literally all to be pushed out the door, we would be talking about thousands of FBI agents. There’s only 14,000 agents in the field, and we’d be talking close to 6,000 of them who worked such cases.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Scott, we were just talking about Kash Patel, the boss, isn’t in place yet. He was asked under oath before Congress if he knew of some of these actions that were underway literally as he was testifying, he said he didn’t know anything about the firings. Is this going to- is it credible, and is it going to be a problem for his confirmation?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: This might have been simultaneous, Margaret. These questions, including from Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey, were happening as a lot of this communication was going back and forth over terminations, resignations, retirements. Kash Patel has been on the trajectory towards confirmation as the next FBI director, almost from the jump. The one vote I’ve been watching closely Thom Tillis, the North Carolina Republican up for reelection in 2026, he introduced Kash Patel and validated him. It seems nobody has jumped up this weekend to say, I’m now opposed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott McFarlane, it’s going to be another interesting week in Washington. Thank you for bottom-lining it. We’ll be right back.
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