On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Sen. Mark Warner, Democrat of Virginia
- Rep. Brian Mast, Republican of Florida
- Sen. Bernie Sanders, Independent of Vermont
- Frank Figliuzzi, former FBI assistant director for counterintelligence, and CBS News justice correspondent Scott MacFarlane
- Hanna Siegel, sister of freed hostage Keith Siegel
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President Trump picks a tariff fight with America’s top trade partners, federal workers brace for another tumultuous week, and the fallout continues from Mr. Trump blaming diversity policies for the midair collision of an Army Black Hawk and a passenger jet.
Washington and the rest of the world are waking up to what feels like a new reality show, as President Trump continues to make good on his campaign promises, despite the confusion and controversy surrounding some of them.
We will talk with the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Virginia’s Mark Warner, Vermont independent Bernie Sanders, and the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Republican Brian Mast.
On the good news front, American Keith Siegel has a happy family reunion following his release from Hamas captivity.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
One of the president’s biggest campaign promises was to enact steep tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China. Saturday night, he did just that. And the move has already sparked international backlash and sent chills through the financial world.
We begin with senior White House and political correspondent Ed O’Keefe, who is traveling with Secretary of State Marco Rubio in Panama – Ed.
ED O’KEEFE: Margaret, good morning.
These are sweeping tariffs, the present using a 1977 law to suggest there is now an extraordinary threat from fentanyl and illegal immigration and that all three countries are failing to address those challenges.
So, starting Tuesday, there will be 25 percent tariffs on all Mexican exports, 25 percent tariffs on most Canadian exports, 10 percent tariffs on Canadian energy exports and 10 percent tariffs on all goods from China.
This morning, the president acknowledged this could lead to higher prices, writing: “Will there be some pain? Yes, maybe and maybe not,” he wrote on his social media platform, “but we will make America great again and it will all be worth the price that must be paid.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: This has triggered a trade war. Canada’s prime minister announced tariffs on American beer, bourbon, wine, lumber, fruits, clothing, appliances.
So, Ed, what else should we expect is coming that could hurt American consumers?
ED O’KEEFE: Well, we should anticipate there could be a tit for tat here, because the orders that the president signed Saturday night give him the authority to keep raising tariffs on the three countries if they respond in kind. And that could contribute to an uptick in inflation, which we have seen in recent weeks.
Now, the Canadian prime minister, Justin Trudeau, spoke directly to Americans last night, warning the tariffs – quote – “will put your jobs at risk,” potentially shutting down American auto assembly plants and other manufacturing facilities.
And he said Canada’s planned dollar-for-dollar retaliatory tariffs will raise American grocery and gas prices. And while President Trump accused Mexico of having an alliance with drug cartels, President Claudia Sheinbaum said: “If such alliances exist anywhere, they exist in the U.S. gun shops that sell high-powered weapons to criminal groups.”
And China says it firmly deplores and opposes this move and will take necessary countermeasures to defend its legitimate rights and interests. It is planning to protest these tariffs to the World Trade Organization.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ed, what’s on Secretary Rubio’s agenda in Panama?
ED O’KEEFE: Yes, well, you know, Rubio, of course, the first Latino secretary of state, so he is taking his first overseas mission here to Central America and the Caribbean to reiterate President Trump’s concern that China now has too much influence over the Panama Canal.
The Panamanians insist they have full control – Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thanks, Ed.
We go now to Virginia Democratic Senator Mark Warner. He is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and joins us from Palm Beach, Florida.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR MARK WARNER (D-Virginia): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any sense yet what the cost of these tariffs could be for Virginia, which does have a wine industry, for example?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Yes.
Well, first of all, Margaret, I think we might want to call this the Donald Trump Super Bowl tax with the big game coming next week, if – avocados, tomatoes, beer from Mexico, prices going to go up. The question around cars, I have read already about $3,000 of additional price on cars, up to $10,000 on trucks, because we have actually integrated very well our auto production with Canada and Mexico.
I think as well about the fact that for years we have been encouraging businesses to leave China and nearshore to a place like Mexico. Now that is going to end up costing consumers more. And for industries like ours, like the wine industry, where we are growing rapidly in Virginia, those folks are going to get socked as well.
So this is a – remember, Donald Trump got hired trying to lower – saying he was going to lower grocery prices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Two weeks in, he’s doing something that’s going to do the absolute opposite.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will track the impact of this trade war.
Senator, I want to switch topics. You are, as we said, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. We watched that hearing this week for Tulsi Gabbard. She had two particular exchanges with Republican senators, Todd Young and James Lankford, who pressed her to say that Edward Snowden was a traitor.
Lankford said it was a softball, but listen to what happened.
(Begin VT)
SENATOR TED BUDD (R-North Carolina): Did he betray a duty, did he betray the trust of the American people? Which is – according to Merriam-Webster, that’s the definition of a traitor.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE TULSI GABBARD (D-Hawaii): Edward Snowden broke the law and he released this information in a way that he should not have. He also acknowledged and exposed information that was unconstitutional.
SENATOR JAMES LANKFORD (R-Oklahoma): Was he a traitor at the time when he took America’s secrets, released them in public, and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE TULSI GABBARD: Senator, I’m focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have worked closely with these senators. I know they’re Republicans and you’re from a different party, but when you speak to them privately, do you think they can get over that, her refusal to call him a traitor, and actually vote to confirm her or even move her out of committee?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Listen, Margaret, Edward Snowden released more information, probably did as much damage to our intelligence community as anyone in history.
And the fact that Ms. Gabbard, who actually had legislation to pardon Edward Snowden – she called him a brave whistle-blower – couldn’t bring herself to call him a traitor, I think, is disqualifying just on plain judgment.
What would that – what signal, if she got in, would that send to the I.C. workers or contractors? Is she going to suddenly enforce the law, if she called Snowden a brave whistle-blower? And
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: what I’m particularly concerned about, Margaret, is, our sharing of information with our allies, that’s not written into law. That’s based on trust.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Will they really trust to share their intelligence with us if she can’t call out one of the worst traitors in recent American history as such, as a traitor?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think she can even make it out of committee and make it to a full vote on the floor of the Senate?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I know there are a number – our committee is historically the most bipartisan. We check our partisan hats at the door.
There is enormous MAGA pressure that – as we have seen, put on senators who are willing to stand up. We will know this coming week. But – and it’s not just Snowden. It was America’s most powerful intelligence tool is a law called – or something we call Section 702. She left us totally confused on her views on that.
And as well her lack of judgment, whether it’s going to visit Assad when he was head of Syria, whether it was taking trips paid for by sketchy groups, or echoing Putin’s comments that somehow NATO started the war in Ukraine…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: … that is not the judgment of somebody that would run 18 intelligence communities – agencies.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will watch to see those Republican senators.
I want to ask you as well about what’s happening at the FBI and the Justice Department. President Trump, he campaigned on this promise to restructure the government. Seems like he’s implementing that this week. So far, between the FBI and Justice Department, we have seen at least 20 terminations.
Some are calling this a purge, but is it overstating it if we’re seeing 20 people lose their jobs?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Well, if you are suddenly taking out the most experienced folks at Justice or at the FBI, how does that make us stronger?
And what he’s saying is, every FBI agent that somehow touched the January 6 investigation – that was a comprehensive investigation. I have been told there were – almost half of all the FBI agents at least had some involvement. Remember, this was a case that was taken up against these rioters all across the country.
If you’re suddenly going to get rid of all of those, that could be thousands.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: What does that mean for our cybersecurity? What does it mean for our trafficking and stop against fentanyl and other drugs? What does it mean in terms of serious crime investigations?
This would be devastating.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s – well, our reporting is that the order was for a list to be drawn up of those 1,500 or so people who worked on those cases. We’re going to try to get to the bottom of whether they’re actually going to be fired or not. That’s not clear.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: But, Margaret – Margaret, it – we have seen – but we have seen, you get your name on these lists. It’s like – it’s like Trump’s potentially illegal offer to buy out all the federal employees, where we have no money in the budget for.
But we had a great tragedy this week in D.C. with the air – the crash.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: We are already short air traffic controllers. If suddenly 2,000 or 3,000 air traffic controllers were to say, hey, I’m going to take this buyout, our airspace couldn’t operate.
And yet he’s doing this so recklessly and, frankly, again…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it being offered to them?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: … without legal authority.
Pardon me. Say again?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that open to – is it being offered to air traffic controllers?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: All federal employees. My understanding, went out to two million federal employees this offer, which, again, OPM does not have that authority to start with. That was who it came from.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: But it is – I can tell you, with lots of federal employees, we got chaos on steroids going on.
And we had heard from Trump’s supporters, the OMB director, for example, that he wanted to traumatize federal workers. Well, that is happening. And these workers are the folks that inspect our fruit, our milk, our eggs.
What happens if they all quit?
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you – and I know many of those people live in the state of Virginia. They are your constituents.
I want to ask you about your former partner on the Intelligence Committee Marco Rubio, now secretary of state. He told a podcaster this week the president made the decision to cancel security protection for Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who served during the first term, because he looked through a threat versus cost risk assessment.
I know you’re briefed on intelligence. Did the threat from Iran to assassinate former U.S. officials go away?
SENATOR MARK WARNER: No.
I have seen no intelligence that would indicate that that threat has been diminished.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Secretary Rubio endorsed this.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: I think this is payback. And it’s not just Pompeo.
Listen, I have not seen any intelligence. And, here, I agree with my partner Tom Cotton, the now-chair of the Intel Committee. We have seen nothing to indicate less threat, and also taking out, for example – down the security detail for former General Chief of Staff Mark Milley, this is all about retribution.
And he’s putting people’s lives in danger, which is just unbelievable. And I wish more people would stand up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, thank you for your time this morning.
SENATOR MARK WARNER: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Florida Republican Congressman Brian Mast, who is the chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, which has oversight over the State Department and its programs.
He joins us from Fort Pierce, Florida.
Good morning to you.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST (R-Florida): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to start first on the tariffs that were announced overnight by President Trump. You know there’s a free trade agreement with Mexico and Canada. President Trump negotiated it during his first term.
The tariffs may violate that deal. If he’s invoking tariffs on a national security basis, can you explain the threat posed by Canada?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Yes, and he was – President Trump, that is to say, was very specific in his executive order, outlined that it’s specifically related to fentanyl. It’s specifically related to human trafficking.
And there’s a trust, but verify situation that has to go on here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Through Canada?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Through Canada as well, absolutely, fentanyl through Canada, human trafficking through Canada, also with China in that mix for fentanyl as well.
That was specifically outlined in it. And until that comes to an end, this is what’s going to be on the table. And bear in mind as well that USMCA reauthorization is coming up in the coming-up months and years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you don’t believe that this violates the trade agreement, the treaty?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: The violation has been to the United States of America. It’s been to our sovereignty. It’s been to our people. We’ve been taken for granted.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but Congress votes on these things. So…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: And I will make sure certainly, as the Foreign Affairs chairman, that we give every single authority as we go through State Department reauthorization, to make sure that this moves forward, as well as purging of people throughout the State Department, other agencies, where we’re freezing aid.
These are all very important and necessary steps to make sure that we secure America. And we’re going to support that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m sorry. Can I follow up on what you just said there?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Please do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You want to authorize purging of State Department personnel? What does that mean exactly?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Well, if you want to take a look at the State Department, where DEI has been a priority over, let’s say, diplomacy on many accounts, I can give you hundreds of examples of where they were authorizing…
MARGARET BRENNAN: What proof do you have of that?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Sure, let’s list them off, half-a-million dollars to expand atheism in Nepal, $50,000 to do, let’s see, a transgender opera in Colombia, $47,000 to do an LGBTQ trans comic book in Peru, $20,000 a pop to do drag shows in Ecuador.
Shall I continue with more examples of where DEI was a priority?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, it certainly seems like there could be a review of things. Foreign aid, as you know, is less than 1 percent of the entire federal budget. So we’re talking small amounts of money by comparison. But when…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: We’re still talking about tens and tens of billions of dollars.
And if you want to go to somebody else, on the other side of the aisle, Samantha Power, she had a worthy goal, although it was a stupid goal. She said she was hoping to get the amount of foreign aid, U.S. aid dollars that go to actual aid up to 30 cents on the dollar from 10 cents on the dollar. That’s a major problem that we have this agency that that’s all that goes abroad…
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think you’re talking about…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: … when it should be the American worker’s dollar.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I think now you’re talking about the USAID, the aid agency…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … which is a – separate from the State Department currently and has about $40 billion worth…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Which is likely going to be rolled more closely under Secretary Rubio.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tell – yes, tell me about that, because that’s where I was going.
Has the Trump administration informed you of plans to dismantle or significantly shrink this agency?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: This is something that I’m working on very specifically, in conjunction with Secretary Rubio, to make sure that there’s the appropriate command-and-control of these agencies, where, again, to make that same point, right now, maybe 10 to 30 cents…
MARGARET BRENNAN: They already report to the secretary of state.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: But 10 to 30 cents on the dollar is what actually goes to aid. So there’s not the right amount of command-and- control that’s going on with the way that it’s set up currently.
And let’s make another point on this as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congress – Congress authorizes and earmarks funding.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Most of these dollars – most of these dollars that go out of USAID, 70-plus percent don’t come from U.S. growers, U.S. farmers, U.S. ranchers, or go through us ports. And that’s another big problem for America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – I’m sorry. If Congress already authorizes and earmarks the funding, just to be very clear, you’re not endorsing getting rid of USAID as a separate department, which already reports to the secretary of state, are you?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: I would be absolutely for, if that’s the path we go down, removing USAID as a separate department and having it fall under one of the other parts of United States Department of State, because of its failure.
I just went over the numbers twice with you in the amount of aid that actually makes it into the hands. I mean, you could you could almost say – this is a little bit hyperbole – but there’s probably more dollars that go towards state dinners around the D.C. Beltway than what actually goes into rice and beans abroad.
That’s the state of what’s going on with USAID. And Samantha Power said no less herself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I think every single administration authorizes reviews, could increase efficiencies. There are plenty of people who propose bringing it more under the authority of the State Department. Madeleine Albright tried to do that. That’s not a new MAGA idea.
I think the question here, though, is about how you do it. Do you still believe that in the law signed in the 1960s that Congress has to sign off on any changes to USAID? Or do you think President Trump can just make all of this happen through executive order?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: So, all of those examples that you just gave of those historical figures, the difference is now the job is going to get done.
It’s going to be 99.99 percent of cents on the dollar actually go towards what it’s intended, instead of people around the Beltway.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, so you’re talking about – you’re talking about…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: That’s what’s going to happen. That’s the change.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … efficiencies in aids versus restructuring.
So let me ask you about that. Well, like I said…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Well, that requires restructuring, 100 percent. You can’t create that efficiency just by wishing it into existence.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: You have to restructure where the failures are and put the right things in place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Of course.
But what we’re hearing from many of these aid organizations and officials is that, can you restructure after you finish the review and not freeze funding now, immediately? I spoke to former USAID global health head Atul Gawande yesterday. He told me this isn’t a pause in foreign aid. It is a demolition of USAID.
As he put it, you can’t pause a flight in midair. That’s what’s happening.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Let’s…
MARGARET BRENNAN: This immediate freeze in funding is stopping agencies in the field from being able to do the work they do.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Let’s say why that is so important. And let’s talk about the real facts on the ground.
The Trump administration comes in or representatives like myself that do oversight. The agencies will literally not tell us what they are writing grants for, literally, or they will lie about it, or they will tell the new political appointees under the Trump administration, I’m just not going to tell you that. Those are real things that have happened.
So the way that you make them come and answer for where they are actually sending dollars is to say, we’re freezing that. We’re putting it on hold. You need to come to us and explain what it is you’re doing, why you’re doing it and where it’s actually saving life. And guess what?
MARGARET BRENNAN: But…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: When they don’t come explain something, that also begs the question, why were they doing it in the first place?
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the way these things work is, the contractors have to front the cash, then go to the U.S. government for reimbursement.
So when you put in an immediate freeze, that means drugs don’t get delivered. That means they don’t get distributed. That means bomb disposal units don’t get to go out there in places like Cambodia and remove ordnance or provide help to people who receive it.
That’s the pushback from aid organizations, who are saying they’re going to have to carry out layoffs in the thousands in the coming week. Does that concern you at all?
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: They will have an opportunity. It doesn’t concern me because of the grift that has been going on to the American taxpayer, the American worker.
That’s what needs to be answered for. And so you look at this. Let’s use PEPFAR as an example. You were talking about drugs going to individuals. There was a release of that hold that was put – that was authorized. But it shouldn’t be the case that the American people fund HIV and AIDS drugs for 20 million people across Africa, where many of these countries are working very directly with our adversaries like China.
That is an example of them taking us for granted. We need to be asking the question, should they be weaning off of this? Should we be paying it for these very expensive HIV and AIDS drugs?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Should the American worker be footing the bill for that? Those are real questions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, real questions, but, in the meantime, people need their drugs while you ask those questions. So that’s where the disagreement is with the aid organizations.
But let me ask you about air traffic controllers and what’s happening here at home.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: Not with all the leaders of other countries, though. I believe I saw the leader of Kenya as one step up and say, hey, this is an example where we need to step up for ourselves and show how we can take care of ourselves. And I believe that was the president there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you, as I was saying, about another committee you sit on, Transportation Committee.
The FAA hiring policy for air traffic controllers, including under the first Trump administration, offered equal opportunity to those with targeted disabilities, including, as the president read, hearing, vision, missing extremities, partial paralysis, complete paralysis, severe intellectual debility – disability. Excuse me.
The president singled this out, this policy, as a contributor possibly to the crash. Do you agree with the diversity policy, or do you agree with the president? I know you lost two limbs serving this country in Afghanistan. Do you hear those words and take offense to them or…
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: No, no offense. Let’s unpack it.
Number one, I will use myself as an example, right? There are things that I am suited to do, no doubt. But flying an aircraft, to stick with the subject at hand, would not be one of them. I could fly a personal – a personal aircraft.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is air traffic controllers.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: But to put me in charge of traffic or 150 lives, that would not be the right case for me personally, given my physical disabilities and foot pedals on an aircraft.
To go to the diversity side of it and the actual crash, yes, there were very real errors that took place both in the air traffic control tower and with the helicopter pilots, it seems. But, more systemically, is there a big hiring problem across all federal agencies, to include the FAA, where they made the priority diversity and inclusion…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN MAST: … instead of excellence and performance? Yes, that’s the case. They made the priority appearance and lifestyle and not the big deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, thank you for your time today.
We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to independent Senator Bernie Sanders from Burlington, Vermont.
Good morning to you, Senator.
Very quickly, do you have a sense of the impact of these tariffs on your state?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vermont): Well, it’s going to be very severe.
But this is not the only thing that worries me. Margaret, we are living in an unprecedented moment in American history. We’re looking at a rapid growth of oligarchy. We’re looking at a rapid growth of authoritarianism. And I fear that we’re looking at a rapid growth of kleptocracy as well.
And I’m going to do everything I can to work with my supporters all over this country to stand up and fight back to make sure we have an economy that works for everybody…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: … not just Elon Musk, and that we maintain American democracy. Difficult times.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator – Senator, I’m going to have to ask you more about what you mean by that on the other side of this commercial break, because I have to take it.
Stay with us. We hope all of you will as well.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We return to our conversation with Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders.
Senator, thank you for sticking with us through the break.
I want to ask you about some of the rather fiery hearings you were a part of this past week, in particular with the potential Health and Human Services secretary to be, RFK Jr. You told CBS in December you think he’s right about the food industry and obesity and what he says about high prices for prescription drugs. But during the hearing, you had some sharp exchanges. Are you, at this point, decided on your vote? Will you cross over and help Republicans confirm him?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Well, I have – Margaret, I have up to now voted for some Trump appointee. A few. I voted against most. And I’ll make my decisions next week.
Where Kennedy is right is, we are an unhealthy society. A point I’ve been making, many others have been making for a long time.
One of the things that concerns me very much, and Kennedy mentioned it, is our life expectancy. How long our people live is five years less than other wealthy countries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: And if you’re working class in this countries, you live six or seven years lower than if you are rich. It is an issue we have to deal with. And I think the kind of addictive and poisonous food that the food industry is providing our kids is one of the factors, not many.
But when you have Kennedy come forward and saying he cannot, he believes, continues to believe, that autism is caused by vaccines, despite the fact that there have been a dozen studies over the years which disprove that, when he has other conspiracy theories, when he cannot acknowledge that if you’re going to make America healthy, we’ve got to guarantee health care to all people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: He was not clear about the need to take on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and lower prescription drug costs. So, I was not particularly happy with his presentation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the autism point, there is no established cause of autism spectrum disorder, but one in 36 children have been identified with it, according to the CDC.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There is concern in this space, including from your Republican colleague, Cassidy. He is a medical doctor. He said he’s struggling with the nomination because he fears Kennedy may undermine faith in vaccines.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VC)
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I recognize, man, if you come out unequivocally, vaccines are safe, it does not cause autism, that would have an incredible impact. That’s your power. So, what’s it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles, or will it be using credibility to undermine?
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The senator seemed to be saying, if you want my vote, answer the question. You said you haven’t decided on RFK and how you’re going to vote. Is this a red line for you?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, look, I – I don’t want – I – I – I – Margaret, what I’m saying is, I just don’t go around making these announcements. I will vote when I’ll vote. But anybody who watched that hearing understands my deep concerns about Kennedy.
But I’ve got to tell you, the conspiracy theories that he is throwing out is not unlike what we’re hearing all over the Trump administration. And, to me, what is most important in terms of what’s been happening since Trump has been president is not just him having the three wealthiest people in the country stand behind him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: And, by the way, anybody, any working person in this country should understand what that means. It means that you’re going to have a government working for the very rich, not for the working class of this country. But the movement toward authoritarianism –
MARGARET BRENNAN: But –
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Yes, go ahead. I’m sorry.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no, no, I want to ask you about that, but just to push you on this point, because it’s not just a matter of a vote, like, what you are saying is that someone at the top of the – the health department who is rejecting science or rejecting data that says there’s no linkage here, no proven linkage here, by not being clear and saying that’s a red line, doesn’t that lend itself to misinterpretation? Why wouldn’t you say that’s disqualifying for him?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Because I have not said – I have not said to anybody how I will vote. It doesn’t matter. I will vote when I’ll vote. But let me just tell you –
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, because Republicans were hoping you would help them.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: The idea that –
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s why I’m asking you.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I know, they hope for a lot of things. It just may not happen. But I think –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ah –
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: All right, go ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go ahead. I’m sorry.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Look, the bottom line is, we have a health care crisis in America. We’re the only major country not to guarantee health care to all people. We pay by far the highest prices in the world, for prescription drugs. Our life expectancy is shorter than other countries. Yes, we’ve got to deal with it in a very direct and forceful manner. You’ve got to take on the insurance companies. You’ve got to move to Medicare for all. You’ve got to lower the cost of prescription drugs. We have to understand why our life expectancy is lower.
And, by the way, it’s not just health care.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: It’s the fact that so many of our working people are stressed out by inadequate incomes that that’s having an impact on not only their life spans but their well-being. Those are issues we’ve got to address.
MARGARET BRENNAN: During the campaign, then candidate Trump and Vance, they – they were very much championing working class people, as you have through the years. They said they support unions, they don’t want to tax tips, they want child care tax credits, they’re pro worker. Do you see any opportunities to work with them on specific policies and, if so, where?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, if they were telling the truth and they will go forward in trying to stand up for the working class, of course I will work with them. But I’ve got to tell you, just last week what Trump did is essentially neuter the National Labor Relations Board. This is something that Bezos wanted. It’s something that Elon Musk wanted. What that means, if you are a worker right now, and there are millions of workers who want to join a union because they know unions will give you better wages and better working conditions, better benefits. What they have done is neutered that so right now union busting corporations, like Amazon and others, can do what they do against workers with impunity. That is not standing with workers. We need to raise the starvation minimum wage, which is now $7.25 an hour, to a living wage. I’ve not heard one word from the Trump administration about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they want to leave that up to states and corporations as well to – to make a decision, not –
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Yes, but that’s – that ain’t going to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vice President Vance told us last Sunday, despite those big tech CEOs giving money to the inauguration for Donald Trump, he still believing they have too much power in big tech and that he says, you know, they’re still very much on notice in regard to his past warnings they could be broken up.
Is that a place you are also concerned and could work with him on?
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS: Well, I think Lina Khan, the former head of the FTC, did a great job. And if Vance wants to work with us on that, he’s right. You have right now not only more income and wealth inequality in this country than ever before, more concentration of ownership in the tech industry and in other industries. Do I think we should start breaking up some of these large corporations? Absolutely I do. And we’ll be happy to work with them if they’re serious about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont, thank you for joining us.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The FBI is without a permanent director at this point, although Mr. Trump’s nominee, Kash Patel, could get a vote as early as this week.
We turn now to Frank Figliuzzi, he is a former FBI assistant director for counterintelligence, who joins us from Houston. And here, CBS News justice correspondent Scott Macfarlane.
And you cover justice and FBI. A lot happening in both of the departments. And I want to bottom line first with Frank, if I could, digging into your experience here. If you can help us understand the reporting from Andres Triay and Pat Milton that the executive assistant directors, those in national security, cyber, criminal division, are being forced to resign, retire or face termination. What does it mean to have those positions forced out?
FRANK FIGLIUZZI (Retired FBI Assistant Director for Counterintelligence and Author of “The FBI War: Inside the Bureau’s Code of Excellence”): Yes, when you combine that essential layer of leadership, executive assistant directors control multiple operational divisions. So, at least a half a dozen of those reportedly are gone. And then you get down to the level of at least two or three special agents in charge in the field, including Miami, Washington field office. You are starting to lose too much experience. And if this plays out next week as reportedly it might, with regard to dismissing hundreds or thousands of special agents in the field who have touched January 6th cases or Trump related cases, this makes America less safe. This is not reduction, this is not efficiency, it makes America less safe when you lose that much expertise this quickly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Just to follow up there, Scott Macfarlane, what Frank was referring to is a list that was requested. CBS’ Rob Legare actually obtained the memo from Acting Deputy Attorney General Emil Bove, who was previously the personal attorney for Donald Trump.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He ordered the acting director of the FBI to compile everyone who was an employee who was assigned to the 1,500 January 6th cases. There were also eight executives pushed out.
Is this a legal and lawful order? Are FBI officials going to actually fire the people on these lists?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: The list is required, and must be produced by 12:00 p.m. Eastern Time Tuesday according to our latest reporting. Whether it is produced is a different question. But the bottom line here is that such a list, Margaret, would include FBI employees from every FBI field office across the country. This is not just a Washington investigation. The January 6th cases went nationwide.
What’s more, a lot of the names that are going to be on this list, according to my reporting, are already public domain. They’re in the court filings, they’re in the court docket, they’re already out there. So, it’s going to be difficult to mask anybody’s name or anybody’s identity.
Whether this is legally permissible is a different question. Whether these firings are legally permissible is a different question. We know the acting FBI director, in a memo sent to his employees, he emphasized that there are robust protections. His word is robust protections for FBI agents against employment actions.
Feels to me like there’s an galvanization of FBI employees, if they want to fight this, to try to make some effort to push back. Whether they do so is a different question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s why was asking, is it actually going to be firings or is this actually just going to be, you can’t do what – what the president’s team is pressing to do.
Brian Fitzpatrick, you know him from covering The Hill, he’s a Republican from Pennsylvania, used to be an FBI agent, gave CBS a statement I want to read here. He says he wants to emphasize to the administration, “line level street agents have little to no control over the office to which they’re sent, the cases to which they’re assigned, and leads which they are asked to cover. Much like the military, they go where they are told and perform the investigative duties that their chain of command orders them to do.”
Frank, I know you know this, but that is a Republican explaining the basic function of how law enforcement works. It sounds like there’s going to be pushback on the potential of these firings.
FRANK FIGLIUZZI: Yes, indeed. It’s been reported by multiple media outlets that the acting director pushed back very hard and very loudly against the DOJ request. And reportedly he may have been threatened with termination himself. Interest only enough, both the acting director and acting assistant director would be on that list. They both worked January 6 related cases or Trump related cases. So, we’ve got a potential standoff that’s here.
But yes, line agents did nothing outside of the law or attorney general guidelines. They simply worked criminal cases, in many cases gained convictions and guilty pleas. And if they were literally all to be pushed out the door, we would be talking about thousands of FBI agents. There’s only 14,000 agents in the field and we’d be talking close to 6,000 of them who worked such cases.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And, Scott, we were just talking about Kash Patel, the boss isn’t in place yet. He was asked under oath before Congress if he knew of some of these actions that were underway literally as he was testifying. He said he didn’t know anything about the firings. Is this going to – is it credible and is it going to be a problem for his confirmation?
SCOTT MACFARLANE: This might have been simultaneous, Margaret. These questions, including from Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey were happening as a lot of this communication was going back and forth over terminations, resignations, retirements.
Kash Patel has been on a trajectory towards confirmation as the next FBI director almost from the jump. The one vote I’ve been watching closely, Thom Tillis, the North Carolina Republican, up for re-election in 2026, he introduced Kash Patel and validated him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SCOTT MACFARLANE: It seems nobody has jumped up this weekend to say, I’m now opposed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott Macfarlane, it’s going to be another interesting week in Washington. Thank you for bottom lining it.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The temporary cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is still holding and three more hostages were released yesterday, including American Israeli dual national Keith Siegel. His niece, Hanna Siegel, is here with us this morning.
Good morning.
You’ve been waiting for this for over 400 days. How is your uncle doing?
HANNA SIEGEL (Niece of Freed U.S. Israeli Hostage Keith Siegel): I’m – first, thank you for having me. I’ve been dreaming about being here today.
He’s – he’s doing OK. He’s – he’s lost some weight. He’s pale. But he’s strong. And he’s doing OK. Somehow. We’re incredibly grateful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean we’ve seen the video and the images of him being reunited with family members. Will your father, his brother, see him soon?
HANNA SIEGEL: Yes. Yes. He’s on his way. We’ve been staggering the family visits so as not to overwhelm him. But, yes, we are all – we are all going to see him. And actually his youngest daughter, Shir, got engaged a month before October 7th. And so the wedding planning began and then abruptly came to a stop as both of her parents, Keith and my aunt Aviva (Ph), who was released in the November 2023 deal, were taken hostage. So, what we’ve talked about is that, you know, someday we’re all going to get together and throw an absolutely epic wedding. And that’s what we’re looking forward to now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you’ve been an advocate for the family here in Washington, both with the Biden and the Trump administrations. In your view, do you think this deal, this hostage release, would have happened without American pressure?
HANNA SIEGEL: No, definitely not. And I do want to say, so the Biden team, Jake Sullivan, Brett McGurk, President Biden, Secretary Blinken, Bill Burns, they were so tireless in their commit to get this deal done. But the really amazing thing is that the minute that President Trump was elected, his team started working hand in glove with the Biden administration. We felt no break in the commitment to get Keith home. Steve Witkoff and Adam Boehler, along with President Trump, started working hand in hand with the Biden team. And I don’t know what other issue you can say that about with these administrations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
HANNA SIEGEL: The Trump team really did push it over the finish line. And we’re incredibly grateful, incredibly grateful to – to all of them for the work that they did.
I also just want to say the Qatari negotiators, mediators, who were part of the November 2023 deal were also instrumental. And then what I’ve learned in this completely bizarre experience is that there is a whole industry of people, NGOs, who work on hostage negotiations on behalf of families. We worked with Global Reach, Mickey Bergman, Stacia George and Eric Lebson, they’re a non-profit. We would not have gotten Keith home without them.
So, it was just a tremendous group effort across the board, across political lines, and that’s heartening.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told us back in April on this program that you were worried, quote, “it’s not arguably in Prime Minister Netanyahu’s political interest to close a deal” And you were worried he was going to sink it. He has announced phase two of the hostage framework begins getting negotiated tomorrow, Monday. Do you think he’s incentivized now to actually see this deal through?
HANNA SIEGEL: I think that the Trump team has done a really tremendous job of putting serious pressure on him and that that is making a difference. I think that he – you know, we’re ecstatic that Keith is home, but it took almost 500 days. And that is in part because of Netanyahu.
This deal was available for months. The Biden team was working on it. And – and he wouldn’t come to the table often. I mean there are – this is such a complicated issue, but I am worried – I think this is a really fragile deal, as we all understand. And so, you know, I have a lot of faith in the Trump team and in all of the people working on this to put serious pressure on him to see it through.
I think what we’ve seen is that diplomacy and political agreement is the only way to get all of the hostages home. And, you know, we’re – we’re one of the lucky ones, but there remain five American citizens and dozens of other hostages who still need to come home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the remains of some of those Americans wouldn’t come through until phase three.
HANNA SIEGEL: Yes. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And phase two, we know, Edan Alexander, a uniformed IDF soldier, who is a U.S. citizen –
HANNA SIEGEL: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The deal would have to continue to work to actually bring him home. Sagui Chen, we’re waiting on him to be released as well.
HANNA SIEGEL: Exactly. Exactly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I – I emphasize that because when we talk about deals and diplomacy, these are lives at risk. And if the deal doesn’t continue to stay in place, they may be at risk.
HANNA SIEGEL: And – and these – and these are Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
HANNA SIEGEL: These are Americans who need to come home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Hanna, thank you.
HANNA SIEGEL: Thank you so much, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And congratulations.
HANNA SIEGEL: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s great news.
HANNA SIEGEL: Thank you for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Before we go, “CBS Evening News” co-anchor and presidential historian John Dickerson has some thoughts on the tone of those Oval Office moments following tragedy.
(BEGIN VT)
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): After the deadliest air crash in 20 years in America, President Trump responded, as presidents have before.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I speak to you this morning in an hour of anguish for our nation.
In moments like this, the differences between Americans fade to nothing compared to the bonds of affection and loyalty that unite us all.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): Differences fade because we are all reminded of the basic truth, that we are all human and life is fragile.
In such rare moments, a president can transform private grief into public meaning. These presidential moments live in our collective memory.
Ronald Reagan addressing the nation after the Challenger disaster.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): George W. Bush at Ground Zero.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The nation sends its love and compassion.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): Barack Obama singing at the Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston.
BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (singing): Amazing grace.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): In speech, by bull horn, in song, and now, by executive memorandum. That’s how Donald Trump used the Oval Office where Reagan had eulogized the Challenger astronauts. Though the president had earlier declared an hour of anguish for our nation, for him, the hour only lasted a few minutes. He spent much of the remainder of this unique moment distributing blame.
TRUMP: I put safety first. Obama, Biden, and the Democrats put policy first. And they put politics at a level that nobody’s ever seen.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): The starkest claim, the one behind the Oval Office signing ceremony, that diversity programs had caused the crash that killed 67.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a presidential memorandum titled Immediate Assessment of Aviation Safety. In light of the damage done to aviation safety by the Biden administration’s DEI and woke policies.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): When asked what proof he had that diversity was the culprit, and the president said he had no proof but didn’t need any.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I’m trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash.
TRUMP: Because I have common sense, OK. And, unfortunately, a lot of people don’t.
JOHN DICKERSON (voice over): The president’s certainty about the crash, despite the lack of proof, suggested for many Americans that the common sense he was referring to was that diversity means things automatically go wrong when people of color are in charge. In one press conference he traveled the entire length of the emotional register, from asserting that the differences between Americans fade to returning the focus to those differences.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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